Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton By Camille Paglia

by Andre X, Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:00:04 PM EST

All women, on pain of excommunication from the feminist claque, must now support Hillary. Never mind her spotty record or her naked political expediency. Any woman with the temerity to endorse Barack Obama (as I do) is condemned as a "traitor" to her sex. "Gender is probably the most restricting force in American life," trumpeted Steinem earlier this year in an article promoting Hillary in the New York Times. Barriers of race, class or economics are waved away as mere frippery.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht ml?xml=/news/2008/04/19/wuspols219.xml




Tags: Hillary Clinton, crazy female anti-feminist, homophobe, jealous that clinton has more power than she ever will, gets off through patritiarcy, not really a feminist, hillary hater, right wing talking points, faux feminist, please excuse my vaginal hatred (all tags)

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Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 12)

I think Molly Ivins sums up my views on Camille:

"There is one area in which I think Paglia and I would agree that politically correct feminism has produced a noticeable inequity. Nowadays, when a woman behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, "Poor dear, it's probably PMS." Whereas, if a man behaves in a hysterical and disagreeable fashion, we say, "What an asshole." Let me leap to correct this unfairness by saying of Paglia, Sheesh, what an asshole.


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:07:01 PM EST

ah nutz (2.00 / 0)

I was supposed to be responding to you- its down thread...


by linc on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

Not that I support this diary, I think it's a tremendous waist of space.  But you should know that Molly Ivins was hell-bent against an HRC presidency.  Link below.  But you are right.  No one summed up feminism better than her.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/20/i vins.hillary/index.html


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:08:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 2)

The more relevant point may be that, whatever one thinks of Hillary, Camille Paglia is most definitely an asshole.


by Alice in Florida on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:57:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women should vote for Clinton (2.00 / 9)

You do know that Camille Paglia is not taken seriously by most, don't you?  I find her to be an ass, myself. Anything she says, I consider an insult to most women and just the fact that she is lecturing about Clinton makes me support her even stronger.  


by Scotch on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:08:32 PM EST

Rather than posting my own distaste for Paglia (2.00 / 6)

which I was about to do, I think I will just enjoy Molly and yours!  Ha!  That made my day.


by linc on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:09:20 PM EST

Re: Rather than posting my own distaste for Paglia (2.00 / 7)

glad you liked it - Molly was a gem of a writer and a fighter.  I do miss reading her articles.  May she rest in peace

one of my favorite feminists, Naomi Wolf, had this to say about Pagila:
"the nipple-pierced person's Phyllis Schlafly who poses as a sexual renegade but is in fact the most dutiful of patriarchal daughters...[her writing is] full of howling intellectual dishonesty."


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rather than posting my own distaste for Paglia (none / 0)

Those two quotes are great examples of why Molly Ivins and Naomi Wolf are (were, in one sad instance) two of my favorite public intellectuals.  Honestly, I didn't even read the article, Obamatanked though I am, because it was Paglia.  If you want a feminist's perspective on reasons to vote for Obama, read Naomi Wolf.

Prog


by Progressive Witness on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 6)

Not to put too fine a point on it, Camille Paglia is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Her history speaks for itself.


Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:10:53 PM EST

Why would anyone (2.00 / 6)

quote the woman once described as "the nipple-pierced person's Phyllis Schlafly who poses as a sexual renegade but is in fact the most dutiful of patriarchal daughters."

Please do your homework before you post!


by izarradar on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:11:18 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

Wow! Great read.  I wanted to quote a paragraph but there were so many great ones I couldn't make up my mind which to quote. Read for yourself. She clearly doesn't think much of Hillary but she makes some very good points.


by Becky G on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:11:53 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 7)

points that are full of "howling intellectual dishonesty."


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If this diarist had any concept of context... (2.00 / 9)

...then the diarist would know that Camille Paglia is one of the all-time, notorious anti-feminists of our generation.

As a Hillary supporter, I wanted to thank you for posting this!

It's the equivalent of an endorsement from the extreme/far right as far as the issue of equality between the sexes is concerned.


by bobswern on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:13:58 PM EST

Although I would like to see Hillary (2.00 / 2)

getting 90% of the womens vote (since then she would be winning overwhelmingly), I am also happy that women are not supporting another woman in lockstep, just for the sake of her gender.  If there was a man in the race that I thought was a better candidate than Hillary, I would support him in a heartbeat, regardless of his gender.  


by AnnC on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:16:26 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 6)

Andre X, are you a man?  I ask that because most women on this board would probably NEVER post anything from Paglia...

Paglia's roots are conservative


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:16:38 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't (2.00 / 6)

I really stopped thinking Camile meant anything when she basically started bashing Hillary's supporteres as fruity yes men who were "pale and asexual", or something like that. I thought I was reading a post from that one right wing troll on here who talks about "Ole Rodham-Clinton" all the time. I could never understand why a mainstream news outlet would give this crazy person the time of day--she seriously needs help.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:20:40 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't (2.00 / 6)

Add on to her other offenses, Paglia denies global warming

her friends include Andrew Sullivan, Rush Limbaugh & Matt Drudge.  I mean that tells A LOT about her, now doesn't it?  


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:24:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't (1.00 / 2)

Hey Andrew Sullivan rocks, he may be a conservative, but he is a true small government conservative who hates the far right as the rest of us!


She and McCain are very close - Bill Clinton
by clintonmccain on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't (2.00 / 7)

Andrew's okay. However, can you please remove your rather ignorant signature line? It's taken out of context--Bill was speaking about Hillary and McCranky being close friends in the Senate, and it's completley taken out of context. Perhaps I could post Senator Obama's quote on being "Close" to Tom Coburn. And anytime you're ready to stop spewing the ridiculous myth that the more progressive canidiate in this race--Hillary Clinton--is a Republican or similar to John McCain, you'll continue to get a TR from me on the posts you make. Thank you and good day.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't (none / 0)

I would argue that she is only more progressive on health care.


by ProgressiveDL on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 2)

Well, while we are bagging feminist icons, how about Germaine Greer?:


...she says US presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton is cold and manipulative and had benefited from her husband's position rather than her own political skills.

[...]

[T]he feminist academic was scathing of Hillary Clinton, who is battling fellow US senator Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination in the presidential race.

"I can't see that Hillary would appeal to feminists because, why is she there? She is there because she is Bill's wife, and it's a bit useless to pretend, `Oh, it's because of her wonderful job as a senator', and all that," she said.

"I just don't think it's true. When she had a big job in government, she blew it."

Ms Greer, who said she knows the Clintons, believes the couple shares a "confederacy" or business partnership rather than an emotional relationship.

"They give me the creeps, from that point of view," she said.

"Everybody loves Bill. Bill is adorable and Bill is always flattering me and inviting me to stuff in Britain and we're buddy-buddy, and I like him.

"I don't like Hillary because she's so bossy and cold and manipulative and stuff, and I don't think having her in power is going to make and difference, basically, because she will have the same set of advisers."

Greer backs Gillard, slams Hillary AAP 10 Mar 08

Hillary may have made significant progress in uniting women behind her electoral ambition but she is certainly dividing feminists.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:37:36 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 0)

interesting read!


She and McCain are very close - Bill Clinton
by clintonmccain on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 2)

Camile Padgila is far from a "feminist icon". Feminist icons do not talk like she does; are not openly homophobic and do not have the record of crazy rhetoric and hate that she does. Anyone who makes the statements that she has should be condemned (and rightly so).


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 0)

Fair enough:


She has been variously called the "feminist that other feminists love to hate," a "post-feminist feminist," one of the world's top 100 intellectuals by the UK's Prospect Magazine, and by her own description "a feminist bisexual egomaniac."

Wikipedia - Camille Paglia

I'm definitely not going any further, I am way out of my depth here.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:13:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

I always looked at her as a feminist icon wannabe. She never made it.


by Scotch on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:49:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 2)

Oh, and I forgot, that's the same Germaine Greer who gets off on teenage boys, right?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

I wouldn't know, I haven't been a teenage boy for quite some time.  It's the same Germaine Greer who wrote The Female Eunuch in 1970.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 3)

Yes, did you miss her other work, a picture book about the "beauty" of young teenage boys, with mildly suggestive photographs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beautif ul_Boy


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:27:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

Guess so.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

Fortunately for all of us Germaine Greer lives in Australia and won't be voting.  She may have grown a little strange in her old age.  She sounds about as sexist as someone can be in her quotes, now.  


by Scotch on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

Ya' think?  I have a funny feeling she never has voted in a US election, actually, having been born in Melbourne.  And you reckon she's a sexist now, eh?  Wow, feminism in the US has really sustained some sororicidal damage as a consequence of this historic election, hasn't it?


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:55:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

I don't know what she is sexist or not, but her words sure are.  And I think feminism is rock solid in the US.  This election has by no means changed feminism in the country.  Because I comment not in lockstep with every single feminist in history, you figure feminism is falling apart, do you?  It isn't that fragile.


by Scotch on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

As I said it is the 'historic candidacy' which seems to be dividing opinion.  I am sure mainstream acceptance of feminist principles is a deep social trend which is in the best interest of all concerned.  It is the co-opting of 'feminism' and the accusations of sexism that are occasionally made as a consequence of Hillary's, shall we say, polarising personality which seem to be causing the public divisions at this point.  There was a fair bit of fluff on the subject earlier in the campaign, we don't seem to be hearing much about it at present.

Having said that feminism continues to evolve, doesn't it?  There is even a 'post-feminist' voice one hears from time to time.  All healthy indicators of an active role for women in public affairs and debate.  But feminism will change as a consequence of Hillary's candidacy, at least around the margins.  I can't see how it could be avoided.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:00:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (2.00 / 2)

well, Gloria Steinem  is a feminist icon and she supports Hillary.


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:44:13 PM EST

Re: Why women shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton B (none / 0)

Camille Paglia is a feminist icon too.

If Hillary loses, batten the hatches against a mass resurrection of paranoid, paleo-feminist martyrs, counting their wounds and wailing at the blood-red moon.


McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:40:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pagila? HA HA HA HA HA HA (2.00 / 2)

She's a f*cking toon!!!


by CoyoteCreek on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:50:55 PM EST

Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 0)

"I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president."

This is Molly Ivins from two years ago:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/20/i vins.hillary/index.html
http://www.alternet.org/story/31109/

I desperately miss the last page of the Progressive and so wish she were still around to talk some sense to you people.


by hania on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:04:03 PM EST

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 1)

well, alas, she is not around to see what our current candidates are today.  

Just as my brother stated a few years ago he would never vote for Hillary, he now does.


by colebiancardi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 0)

Are you trying to tell me that the mighty Molly Ivins would support the DLC-member triangulating hawk in this race? You haven't been reading what Molly Ivins was writing about ...


by hania on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:23:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 2)

Funny how that "DLC member triangulating hawk" has been proven to be much more progressive than Barack Obama on almost every single issue.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:27:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 1)

Like what? Her long held position that lobbyists represent the American people? Her attack on MoveOn and progressive activists? And what is so progressive about wanting to police the entire Middle East? Oh, wait ... you will start talking about health care. Yes, as if she has any chance in the world to pass her plan through congress ... the same way she passed it in the nineties .. who are you trying to fool?


by hania on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 3)

Funny, because Bawak has taken lobbyists funds too. MoveOn, as far as I'm concerned, is about as extremist as it gets--I could care less about what she thinks of that organization to be honest, I'd rather have her concerned with the American people than that group. Her "policy to police the middle east" is good sound foreign policy--something that, as proven in the last debate, Senator Obama doesn't know much about. Well, he proved that when he said he wanted to drop a bomb on Pakistan at a moment's notice even when that country says no.

And on the way to doing this she hasn't had to become divisive and race bait people in to voting for her. She hasn't lied to the American people about a false promise of "change", and she hasn't had to throw the gays under the bus like Senator Obama has countless times while pandering to the pro-life crowd. So please stop preaching about the DLC. One of the reasons why I chose Senator Clinton is because of her outstanding committment to progressive social issues, something that Senator Obama is sorely lacking, but that's usual for an empty suit who is trying to be all things to all people


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:48:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (none / 0)

No he has not taken funds from lobbyists. Clinton has taken more money from military complex lobbyists than anybody else. It is funny how you want to have it both ways. MoveOn is too extreme and Obama is not progressive enough.

Divisive? Like Bob Kerrey talking about madrases divisive? Like Bob Johnson talking about drug use divisive? Like Bill Clinton talking about latte-liberal elites divisive? Give us a break.

Foreign policy? Hillary and McCain had the exact reaction to Obama when he said that if we had credible information about Al-Qaeda targets in Pakistan and Mousharraf would not react, we would attack the target. It only makes sense as the real enemy is Al-Qaeda. Instead of agreeing with the obvious, Clinton decided to attempt scoring a cheap political point.

Progressive social issues? Obama received a score of 100% from Planned Parenthood and wants to get rid of "Don't ask, don't tell". What are you talking about?

Hillary Clinton is not committed to any progressive  issue. She is only committed to winning elections. It is just not going to happen this time.


by hania on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:15:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (none / 0)

Like the Kyl/Lieberman amendment, for example?  Uh, huh...  Did you happen to hear her comment about extending a commitment to 'massive nuclear retaliation' in respect of the Gulf states at the Wednesday night debate?  I wonder how that slipped under everybody's radar, her foreign policy advisers must have coughed up their skulls.  The ones that hadn't jumped ship recently, that is.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:03:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you mentioned Molly Ivins ... (2.00 / 1)

I agree 100%


Never let the bullies win.
by SluggoJD on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:08:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's funny. (none / 0)

And unless your brother is Molly Ivins, completely irrelevant.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's funny. (none / 0)

It's relevant in that 2 years is a hell of a long time in politics, and she and I and a bunch more  know people who are now voting for Clinton despite swearing her off two years ago.  I have a coworker who is voting for Clinton, who just a couple of months ago asked me,"Who would ever vote for Clinton?". He was a double Bush voter and former rightwing ex-marine. There are many more examples.


by Scotch on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:42:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's funny. (2.00 / 1)

Stop being racist and divisive.

<snark>


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:58:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Conversely (none / 0)

I know yellow-dog Democrats who, after her campaign, would never pull the lever for Clinton. These are people who stood by the Clintons through their entire tenure, people who voted for her for Senate. There's no other way to describe their views than as simple, overwhelming disgust.

And honestly, who can blame them?

But since the plural of anecdote is not data, I'll just point out that her likability and trustworthiness ratings have collapsed.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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